Curse

Lordhelmos · Jan 20, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Now heres a good idea:

Spotless Mind: Change functionality so that for 30 seconds the next (1..5) monk spells you cast on a target ally also remove a hex.

Spotless Soul: Change functionality so that for 30 seconds the next (1..5) monk spells you cast on a target ally also remove a condition.

Kyp Jade · Jan 20, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

The problem with removal like divert hexes or expel or spotless mind, is that the monk wants to remove a hex from the warrior (or someone), but wants to remove THAT hex, not THIS hex, or THESE hexes. IMO there was a really shit design decision when they created hex removal, because there is no way to deal with buried hexes. There should be some way to deal with hexes that are burried deep. Hex stacking should not = win.

Really, they need to rebuff hexes to make them viable to run again, but change some of the removal to
Hexes on target ally end 30...50...some% faster.

That way putting something nasty like reckless haste, and burrying it can still give u some result for the energy you put into it, but the monks now have some method to get to the burried hexes. After all, no one wants to use holy veil to remov eparasistic bond anyway.

wuzzman · Jan 20, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

without hex stack your better off with a 60DP blind bot. Honestly I don't think hexes can ever be balanced as long as lod(pre-nerf) and rc are the best monk backlines. Even Lod and Divert Hexes won't do. You need the boon/prot or blessed light(just lower the damn energy for that RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing still already)backlines where even a 2-3 hexers would have a hard time shutting down your team.Well even if the boon/prot and blessed light backlines aren't made reliable, the big necros hexes (before the nuclear bomb nerf) were all 2 second cast times. While a mesmer can't keep up with a n/e necro who cancels his hexes, a ranger can.

Zuranthium · Jan 21, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Mending Refrain.

Haven't seen this be a problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

But why would you camp a paragon?

I'd hope you wouldn't, but rather watch the animation and count since you know exactly when their skills will recharge.

~Z

erk · Jan 21, 2008, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

The problem with removal like divert hexes or expel or spotless mind, is that the monk wants to remove a hex from the warrior (or someone), but wants to remove THAT hex, not THIS hex, or THESE hexes. IMO there was a really shit design decision when they created hex removal, because there is no way to deal with buried hexes. There should be some way to deal with hexes that are burried deep. Hex stacking should not = win.

Really, they need to rebuff hexes to make them viable to run again, but change some of the removal to
Hexes on target ally end 30...50...some% faster.

That way putting something nasty like reckless haste, and burrying it can still give u some result for the energy you put into it, but the monks now have some method to get to the burried hexes. After all, no one wants to use holy veil to remov eparasistic bond anyway.

The problem is exactly the same for condition stacks when you are trying to remove a buried Dazed or similar, except Monks in the meta tend to carry RC but not Divert Hexes. DH could probably do with a slight buff like make it's energy and cast time the same as RC.

Hexes are not all that popular, I have been playing hexway midline the last week to try and get a more appropriate build to suit the crappy ping in Australia, (Water Ele, Curses Necro, Migrane Mes) and it's pretty tricky, still haven't got a good team build going, we loose more than we win against similar rating teams, compared to just playing Euro balanced. Hexway builds should be viable as not all countries can use interrupt builds due to pings, but it seems that there are too many holes in the suite of useful hexes due to slow interruptible casting, high energy, or recharge nerfs. Probably stick with it for another week and go back to Euro balanced if we can't get it right.

Snow Bunny · Jan 21, 2008, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

...

I think the consensus on Shadow Form is that is does little to enhance, and does much to detract from PvP.

The problem with the skill is that it can only serve to grief, which is why it's bad, which is why there's really no reason not to make it completely unusable.

Granted, there are counters, but the chances of packing them is slim.

Sinful Doom · Jan 21, 2008, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Shadowform is one of those skills in the game that is simply dumb...

Tyla · Jan 21, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinful Doom

Shadowform is one of those skills in the game that is simply dumb...

This comes to mind...they got rid of this...but not shadowform.

wuzzman · Jan 21, 2008, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I think the consensus on Shadow Form is that is does little to enhance, and does much to detract from PvP.

The problem with the skill is that it can only serve to grief, which is why it's bad, which is why there's really no reason not to make it completely unusable.

Granted, there are counters, but the chances of packing them is slim.

funny thing is kinda show the state of pvp when you griefing is an option for fame. in ra the general low quality of most matches + stupid players = in general griefing a few matches won't hurt the competiveness of the arena considering that most RA matches are lackluster at best.

For HA its becomes a matter of; long wait times + stupid players + very few pugging options = the amount of time it takes for a shadowform team to make another team resign is the same amount of time it takes to find a group, discover its full of stupid players, and end up back in district 2 with 5/8 remaining. so pretty much same difference since the point of HA is getting fame not winning.

DarkNecrid · Jan 21, 2008, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

...

its funny cause you name 2 skills that don't really see play as counters, and then you just say kill them as if they are the only people on the team

theres 7 other guys there too man

Sinful Doom · Jan 21, 2008, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

This comes to mind...they got rid of this...but not shadowform.

Thank goodness they got that removal right.

master_of_puppets · Jan 21, 2008, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Come to think of it, I remember almost 2 years ago, I think it was even before the release of factions, during one of those preview weekends, that I was checking out the assassin skills and when I saw shadow form I remember thinking to myself wtf why would they make something so stupid like that? And now here we are.

I dont like when people say if you didnt pack counters for it its your own fault and you deserve to lose or have your time wasted. So what if theres chillblains, or signet of disenchantment, or you can time your flame djinns haste or something.

Point is there is absolutely no reason at all to not kill shadow form, as there are sometimes arguments to not nerf annoying/debated skills, so why not. Doesnt matter that its not a major problem, I guess I have probably faced a shadow form team maybe like 8 or 9 times in total in HA, but they screwed time out of me and one time is one too many. Screwed half an hour one time when 2 ppl on my team didnt want to resign like the rest and thought we could kill them, I didnt want to leave because it was a good team and didnt feel like finding another. Finally won when I think a sin got hit with flame djinns and the other 1 or 2 left.

TheHaxor · Jan 21, 2008, 03:43 AM // 03:43

The skill (shadow form) doesn't need to be removed from the game. However, they should probably look to change it so you can't have permanent upkeep (that's a broken mechanic imo).

Yichi · Jan 21, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

The skill (shadow form) doesn't need to be removed from the game...

Why not? What other purpose besides PvE farming does it encourage?

erk · Jan 21, 2008, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

Why not? What other purpose besides PvE farming does it encourage?

Shadow Form can be used as a running skill for Droks runs, hardly important in the PvP scheme of things though.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 21, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Haven't seen this be a problem?

Cause you don't play at high level, mending refrain is basically +4 regen for everyone but your flagger it's unremovable and essentially free.

It could do with a duration nerf (as in the duration it stays up for without chants/shouts ending). But not before other party healing options are made viable.

erk · Jan 21, 2008, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Anyone notice any difference with the Magebane nerf so far? Seems just as over popular and effective to me.

ensoriki · Jan 21, 2008, 11:54 AM // 11:54

If you need to think ShadowForm should be actually removed from the game your kinda...unstable?

Two Options rly.
Buff up some counters so that they are useful in a general setting and not just a narrow one.

Or, nerf it to the point that it has very little chance of use in pvp, but still usable in pve.
*cough*Disable*cough*

red orc · Jan 21, 2008, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Do you see the balance problem ?

1. For 10 seconds, the next time each party member within earshot uses a Skill, that party member gains 30...78 Health.

recharge 15, cost 5, activation 1

2. All party members are healed for 5...57 Health.

recharge 5, cost 5, activation 2

JR · Jan 21, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

then you just say kill them as if they are the only people on the team

theres 7 other guys there too man

Then why are you complaining that you can't kill them? If there are seven other non-Shadow Formed people on the team then ignore the fairly useless assassin and kill the rest.